When I was researching writing contest scams I came across Today’s-Woman.net, a writing resource for poets. I landed on the Writers Warning section of the site where the focus is on warning writers of dishonest publishers, scam contests and fraudulent businesses. My first thought was, “Wow, this could be a great resource for researching writing scams.” While the basic information is good and sound, I became a bit sceptical as I started reading about some of the online businesses accused by the sites founder, Rose DesRochers, of being fraudulent. The first warning I read was about WritersWorld.co.uk and its owner, Mr. Graham Cook. Apparently Mr. Cook commissioned Mrs. DesRochers’ husband, Shawn DesRochers, owner and founder of Invision-Graphics Inc., a design and Web development company, to redesign his Web site but failed to pay the agreed amount for the work in the time frame agreed on. Okay, I’m thinking, “what does this have to do with writing and just because someone doesn’t pay for a product he never actually used doesn’t make his business a fraudulent one, does it?”
Okay, so the guy might be a slime-bag and made financial agreements he didn’t, wouldn’t or couldn’t keep but what does this particular issue have to do with writing? Yes, I realize that Mr. Graham Cook’s Web site is a print-on-demand book publishing business but is his business fraudulent? Is the business deceiving customers? So, I continued to read further and believe me, there’s a lot to read about Mr. Graham Cook on Today’s Woman. Apparently Mr. Graham Cook advertised his business on Today’s Woman and promised a commission for every book ordered from the advertisement and a discount for members of Today’s Woman. Well, you can guess the outcome.
I did a search for WritersWorld on Google and there is viable evidence from other sources on Mr. Graham Cook and his fraudulent business practices, including a Class Action lawsuit. Writers should be very wary about using his services. While Mrs. DesRochers appears to be correct about Mr. Graham Cook and his business practices, informing the writers community of his dubious exchange with her and her husband on not paying for Web development was curious and in my opinion, inappropriate. I asked myself why, why put that information on a site about writing? All the other information about Mr. Graham Cook was something writers needed to know in order to make an informed decision but did they really need to know that he didn’t pay for a service implemented by Mrs. DesRochers’ husband?
I decided to check out the other businesses Mrs. DesRochers has accused of some type of dubious practice. Jeff Paris (alias zerofunk), owner of Zware Creations and PoetryScams.com has been accused of harassing Mrs. DesRochers and her husband and making physical and libelous statements about them. Then she goes on to state that Mr. Paris has a history of mental illness and accusing him of stalking them all over the Internet and provides screen shots as proof. Wow, I’m blown away. What does this have to do with writing and warning “writers” about a particular business or Web site that might affect them in some way? Now it looks like Mrs. DesRochers has a vendetta and she’s using her Web site to vent her frustration, which only adds fuel to an already raging fire.
If Jeff Paris was posting inappropriate remarks on the forums at Today’s Woman, then there is where it should have been handled, certainly not on a public page that’s supposed to be about warning writers of what to look out for. A page that anyone can read and the information only makes Mrs. DesRochers look immature and vindictive. Her writing style is manic and repetitive, with lots of punctuation and sentence structure errors, making it hard to read. As a writer she should at least proof-read her writing before putting it online for the whole world to see or let someone else edit it for her. I know that editing your own writing isn’t always the best thing to do and my writing is not perfect but when you are going to discredit someone, you’d better look credible or you risk looking like a real doofus.
The waters get even murkier as I explore what Jeff Paris has to say about the DesRochers’. There’s a lot of accusations thrown back and forth, each blaming the other. Now, these are 40 something adults that haven’t figured out that they are active participants in their own victimization. I’m still not sure what caused the problem between these people. Each has their own version of the ensuing events with their own “selective” screen shots as proof and honestly, I don’t care how it started or who started it. The only reason I am writing about this is because I added the warning page from Today’s Woman to my Writing Resource Directory under Poetry Scams after Mrs. DesRochers submitted it. This caused me to take a closer look at the site and while there is some good, viable information for writers, there’s also some inappropriate and questionable content, which has lead me to write this post.
I originally though of removing the link from my directory but then though I’d leave it since there is some valuable and verifiable information on the warning pages. I’m linking this post to the directory listing so that those who may find it via my directory can read this and know to be discerning when reading some of the content. Never believe everything you read online. Always do more research before accepting that a business or person is less than reputable or even completely credible. If you feel uneasy or find yourself questioning the information, trust your instincts, you’re probably right or at the very least, have reason to question if the information is true or just a sampling of the truth.
The one piece of information that showed me that Mrs. DesRochers might have a problem was this post on VirusHead.net, which lead to James Landrith’s post on his experience with Mrs. DesRochers. These two people seem rational and credible while much of the other information I found was irrational, ugly, inflammatory and disrespectful. I’ll let the words of those involved stand for themselves. An example: on a ICQ forum. I’m sure you can figure out who’s who.
Just for clarity: I didn’t write this to discredit Mrs. DesRochers or anyone else for that matter. My intent is to inform with enough information to allow my readers to make up their own minds about whether or not to use a site and if it feels like a good fit for them and their creativity. I, of course, have formed my own opinion and that opinion does weave in and out of this post but hopefully the information is presented well enough that my opinion does not cloud the issues presented here even more than they were already. Do your own research if you are a writer looking for a place to land and commune with other writers. Tread softly and leave no footprints until you’re sure the sand beneath your feet is warm and inviting.
While I respect your opinion, I have to wonder why it is that you are adding fuel to the already lit fire. You have had no business dealings with me personally or do you know me on a personal level. Do you read the National Enquirer and judge stars based on what the paper was written about them? How can you give a review of a community that you have never been apart of? That is like reviewing a book by the outer cover or by judging it because someone else didn’t like the book.
There are many websites that warn users about dishonest publishers, scam contests, scammers, and fraudulent businesses. I’m sure that during your search of my name, you also noticed my article warning parents of protecting their children on the internet and upping the age of sexual consent has appeared on such sites as julieposey.com and c-a-s-e.net. I’m also sure that you noticed I was quoted in October’s issue of the ARRP bulletin by Sid Kirchheimer and my website has been rewarded with glorious media reviews.
The last that I heard there are least two cases against WritersWorld pending in Britain’s law courts and there are a number of individuals who are pursuing claims against the company.
So to answer your question, yes the business WritersWorld is deceiving those in the writing world.
I’m curious why you would think that it was inappropriate to warn writers about Graham Cook using software that my husband developed and he did not pay for. There are many websites online that warn designers of people like Graham Cook. Piratedsites.com being one of them.
Regardless of how you voice your concerns about this issue with Jeff Paris and Zware creations, I realize that you are an outsider and how this may all look to you. What does this have to do with warning writers? He and his wife also own a writing community. He also owns a programming website. I have no vendetta here and I will no longer comment on this abuse from Jeff Paris. I’m allowing the proper authorities to handle the problem. It was Jeff Paris who made this personal. However, I will direct you to http://forums.pirated-sites.com/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=0b29eed03ea5823c4c52a1ed9456f6be
http://www.invision-graphics.com/ftopic-104-165-days0-orderasc-.html
Where other’s have posted their dealings.
As for you, I’m not sure why you would remark on this without knowing the full story. You are correct that you do not know what caused the problem. However, if you had read further, you might realize that this all started over a linking.
Stupid is it not?
It is blog entries like yours here that don’t help the situation at all.
I hope that you will read the article that is on my site now regarding trolls. I’m not calling you one, please don’t mistake my request but there are some good points in that article with regards to how blog entries like yours make people feel.
I invite you to join my community and then write an honest review of it.
I would respect that more than what you have written now.
I do hope that everyone who reads your blog entry will join the community before they subscribe to blogs like this.
You mentioned that you didn’t write this to discredit me; well it sure does look as though you did.
Do you really think that I deserved this blog entry?
After all I only signed your blog, applauding you for your website.
Goodluck with your writing and if you think that you’ll make my warning page, think again and don’t bother subscribing to papers like the National Enquirer, they only hurt people and so do these kind of blogs.
Thank God that I have thick skin.
Rose, I didn’t add any fuel to the fire. I have no emotional or personal investment in the war between you and Paris or you and anyone else. I didn’t judge you by what was written about you. It was your own words that caused me to pause and wonder what your real intent was or might be. My readers can judge for themselves and Rose, I didn’t make any judgment about the writing community at Today’s Woman. I only wrote about and referred to the warning part of your site, period. And yes, I think that part of your site is unprofessional and does you more harm than good, though I will admit that some of the information might be of some value to writers.
As for the business dealings between Mr. Cook and your husband, well that should have been hashed out between him and your husband, not written about on your site, which is supposed to be a warning page for writers on writing related scams. It has nothing to do with writing and there’s plenty of information about Mr. Cook’s business dealing that is writing related to discredit him and his business without getting into the events between him and your husband.
It is blog entries like yours here that don’t help the situation at all.
Rose, my intent was never to help the situation in either direction, good or bad. My intent was and still is to inform with enough information to allow my readers to form their own opinion. At the very least, to cause them to question the information provided on your warning page and to look further before choosing to believe everything that’s written there.
I believe that you truly do not understand that you are your own worst enemy. Your attempt to insult me with the National Enquirer reference says far more about you than it says about me. As I wrote above, it was your own words, Rose, that caused me to pause and question your credibility.
If you have no personal or emotional investment between the war (as you call it) between Paris and I, then why comment on it.
You question my motives on my warning page but you expect people to inform with enough information to allow your readers to form their own opinion.
However, what you are providing them with is a discouragement towards my warning page and our community.
Which you have never been a member of our community nor do I know anything about you.
You have no idea what my real interest is or who I am about. But everyone has an opinion and I respect your right to voice it. However, I ask you to respect mine.
Writersworld is a pod publisher therefore it is related to writing. My husband designed software for WritersWorld that Graham Cook is using for authors to design, format and construct their books. This is software that he did not pay for, just as he did not pay his editors, his book cover designs or produce books that authors paid for. Therefore, it is all writing related. My husband is also the webmaster of my site and Todays-Woman is partnered with invision-graphics.
Thirty five of the warnings on our warning page were all submitted by users. Nothing on that page is posted in malice or are any of the posts fabricated.
You can question my credibility all that you want and I’m so sorry that I did not measure up to your standards.
My comment regarding the National Enquirer was not to insult you but to make you understand how blogs like yours make people feel and I’m truly sorry that you don’t get that.
I can’t change your opinion of me and frankly I don’t care to.
But the point is Today’s Woman is a community website with 600 _+ members and you didn’t search out information about my community, you searched out information about me.
What you got was a google query that shows that I’m an accomplished writer and a few blogs posts that are good for the ratings.
No need to reply as I don’t plan to. I made my point and I hope your readership will see that.
Rose is right, you should go join her site, but you will not be there long, as she does not tolerate any one that does not agree with her. Her membership would be a lot larger if she did not boot so many people off or parade her whines and whimpers and “I am a victim” all over her site and in her forums. Many people left her site due to the fact that they read so much junk on her forums that they checked it out themselves and left the site as they did not want to become part of the battle ground. I personally think it is entertaining and am slowly writing a book on it. Luckily, I copied and pasted everything I could read before it was taken off the Internet and saved all emails from members. I don’t think it will ever be a best seller, but it will be entertaining.
BROWSER, I was once a member of a writing community where flame wars between writers broke out almost daily. The owner setup a forum just for flame wars where members could pretty much say what they wanted to each other but only in that forum. It was actually a very good concept and worked for the most part. It allowed creative folks an outlet and many honed their writing skills in that flame war forum. It made the other writing forums on the site much more productive and extremely creative. It was a great place to explore character development with a diverse variety of characters (the writers) to draw from.
But the axe fell when the forums were sold to one of the members who disliked the flame forum because she was one of the most flamed member there. She shut it down and started editing her members posts, even those members who were never involved in any of the flaming. She eventually banned more than half of her members and the site has never been the same since. Yes, she has new members but the excitement of the creative writing forums is no longer present and hasn’t been for several years now. New writers wonder in and out but the actual writing and development of writing as a craft is gone.
Personally, I was never involved with the flaming, though I did get involved but more as a moderator. I could see where both sides where coming from and the experience allowed me to polish my own writing skills. In essence, my writing became much better because of that particular forum and I was more active in the other forums on the site because of it.
I guess I’m writing this to you because I had to ponder if I would approve this comment. I really do not want this blog post to become the next venue for flaming Rose but I also do not want to censor those who have something to say, good or bad. I think censorship is a killer of the creative process and as long as the comments here are respectful, i.e. no name calling, I will allow them. However, if this post draws a lot of people that hide behind some anonymous name (like yours), then I may censor them out. Anyone who has a serious comment can do so using their real names, especially since the person and place being discussed is not anonymous.
Glo, what an excellent and intelligent feedback to what I wrote and things in general concerning matters of this. It is sad, but not surprising what happened to the group you spoke of. With the Internet so vast and becoming bigger everyday, this happens a great deal, and with so many people and subjects. It is very unfortunate, as it hurts so many businesses and destroys many dreams of being an entrepreneur, at least online.
Some, like myself, can become caught up in this, if it is something you love or do, giving writing as an example. It is hard sometimes to not take it to heart, or become someway involved, if just reading it.
While I did say some harsh things about Todays Women and Rose, there is good in everyone. From what I understand, and what I have viewed from her website, it is very user friendly, easy to navigate, and many people (and still many more there) loved her site very much, and missed it when they left due to the friends they made, etc.
While I would like to give my name, I really can’t, as I have used this screen name just a few times. I was not kidding about writing a book on this, and no one, even in my email that I have, know I am Browser. Giving it away is not a good idea for me right now. But, you have my email address, and thank you for not showing anyone else. If you google the first part, you will know who I am. Please keep it private.
I have really enjoyed your site and have read a great deal here and will continue to read and check back for new things.
Have a great night
Thank you, BROWSER, for understanding. I just wanted to let others know that I will not tolerate drive-by flame throwers here. Not that I’m accusing you of doing that but I can see how that could happen and wanted to nip-it-in-the-preverbal-butt before it became a problem.
I can also see where there may be some readers who have something important to say but do not want to use their real names for fear of some unseen or unknown retribution. I’d like to allow all who happen across this blog the opportunity to voice their opinions but it feels disrespectful to allow anonymous personas to comment when Rose is a real person with real feelings and can not hide behind anonymity on the issues written about here.
You have a great evening also and once your book is written and published, drop by and let me know. Maybe I’ll even write about it.
Glo,
I am one of the culprits that Rose from Todays-woman so often speaks about. At the risk of sounding a wee bit defensive (I promise to make it short), my husband and I have no desire to argue with Mrs. DesRochers. Our battle was really a battle of perspectives (each of us thought the other was wrong). –and as Rose pointed out, our battle did begin over a link trade. How silly, indeed.
Accusations flung from one side to the other, and my husband was very frustrated at the thought of being deemed a criminal on two websites, without any means of giving his response. His attempts to hault the angry discourse were futile, (and sometimes a little, shall we say, spicy?). I think at this point, the argument has become somewhat of a game to prove who’s wrong and who’s right. When any kind of argument gets to such a steamy level, it is safe to assume that both parties are wrong.
All aside, it was a childish feud on both sides of the battle ground.
I respect your honesty and objectivity in your blog. I applaud your efforts to get people to do some research before submitting their works to publishers and to contests.
Best regards,
Devrie Paradowski
Devrie, thank you for being respectful. I do understand how your husband felt but engaging in this kind of battle only compromises everyone’s credibility and brings far too much negative attention to the conflict or to those involved in the conflict. I have not made a judgment on who was/is wrong or who was/is right. I only posted this so that my readers might understand that everything they read may not be entirely true and for them to do more research before believing that a company or person is less than credible.
My readers should not take what I write here as an absolute truth either. They should do their own research and make up their own minds. My intent is to excite my readers enough to cause them to think about whatever issue I write about. The bottom line is that I express my opinion that’s based on my own personal experience. Not everyone will, nor should they, agree with me.
I do hope the feud between the DesRochers’ and your husband works itself out and everyone gets back to their respective businesses and prosper.
Yes, I said many things I should not have. I was very immature in the way I handled the matter, I admit that. I honestly had no idea of how to deal with these people. I could not believe someone would say the things they said about me, not without real proof, at least. Now I know just to ignore them.
By the way, I am only 27, not 40
Hello, Jeff
I did realize that you were younger than the DesRochers’ after posting this information. I read so many forums flaming the DesRochers’, Rose in particular, that it all become one big massive ball of confusion. Everything started to look the same even though the issues were different. Unfortunately, many of the DesRochers’ posts were removed, leaving only one or two people responding to ghosts posts. Anyone reading after the fact would only see one side and go away shaking their heads.
But there is enough information from reliable site owners to give researchers a good idea of what has been going on in the past year or so. I’m not so sure you should have ignored the charges made against you but there certainly is a better way to counter such charges. However, your age may not have given you the experience required to handle the situation differently. I’m pretty sure I’d have done the same at your age - I can be feisty and argumentative even at my current age.
While the whole situation between you and the DesRochers’ was unfortunate, it was also a great opportunity to learn a valuable lesson. I’ll bet you will think twice before you commit to placing words on the world wide web that might come back to haunt you, regardless of how justified you may think you are in that moment.
I’ll close with some words of wisdom since I’m old enough to be your mother and because this is my blog and I can.
Respect isn’t something you get, it’s something you give.
You may not understand the wisdom in those words but someday you will. Thanks for being respectful here.
[quote] I’ll bet you will think twice before you commit to placing words on the world wide web that might come back to haunt you, regardless of how justified you may think you are in that moment [/quote]
You are 100% correct, this helped me grow a lot in the past 2 years. It is funny to look back and see how silly I was to let them under my skin so deeply.
I would just like to say I have been a member of todays-woman for about 6+ months and have enjoyed my time there. I know it is hard to run any kind of business and please everyone. I find the site to be easy to maneuver and all the members to be very nice, including Rose. Rose has shown me nothing but respect once I understood all the rules. I do know it takes two to have an argument and the less said the better. I think the internet is one of todays best discoveries but a poor choice to resolve disputes. I think each person should judge for themselves.
Well, I do hope you were respected while you where learning the “rules.” But I do agree with you, everyone should judge for themselves. If you’ve found a place that feeds your creative spirit, then there is where you belong. My original post was not a judgment for or against the community at Today’s Woman. My intent was to cause others to think about the information on the warnings pages of Today’s Woman and not take the information at face value. In my opinion much of the information on those pages do more harm to Today’s Woman than any kind of good.
I think the internet is one of todays best discoveries but a poor choice to resolve disputes.
Actually, my experience says otherwise. It’s as good as any medium for resolving disputes, though it may be far easier to keep the disputes alive than other mediums simply because of the illusion of anonymity it provides.
Thank you for taking the time to comment respectfully. I do appreciate it.
I have been a member of “Todays Woman” for Almost a year.
I have found it to be a very rewarding experience in every way
Rose and Shawn DesRochers are both high quality individuals
and have earned both my respect and admiration.
The web site is extremely user friendly and easy to navigate. It contains great poetry and stories along with interesting
forums and articles. I highly recommend it for all who enjoy reading and writing.
Rhymemeister
Robert, what a remarkable coincidence, you have the same IP as browser (not to be mistaken as BROWSER) who posted above and is also a “Today’s Woman” member. Do you know each other?
Glo
I have not had the pleasure of meeting browser.
Thankyou for allowing me to comment.
Rhymemeister
I have no problem with anyone wanting to comment in support of Today’s Woman. I do have a problem with multiple persona’s from one person posting in support of, or not in support of, Today’s Woman. I’m not saying that’s what you have done but I want everyone to know that I will not tolerate that kind of behavior here. It’s non-productive and doesn’t offer a variety of opinions for my readers. It will only confuse an already confusing situation.
All IPs, or range of IPs, have physical locations associated with them and they can be tracked. None of us are as anonymous on the WWW as we’d like to believe we are, unless you’re a hacker and even they can be tracked by the right person.
I will make this my last comment on this matter.
I can assure you that I am one person and one person alone.
Not Multiple Personas’ nor am I a hacker. Just one individual expressing an opinion. You may feel free to track my ip’s as you see fit.
I didn’t mean to infer that you or anyone is a hacker. It was a general comment and not directed toward anyone in particular. I apologise if you took offence by my comment, it was not my intent.
No problem Glo. No offence taken. I understand your concern and your position.
Rhymemeister(Bob) is on Aol. AOL users share Proxy IP addresses. Everyone knows this. Bob has been a member of our community since May 24, 2005. He was lid to our website by our writing warning section.
He had a concern with a publisher and I was very helpful in resolving the issue, so that all parties involved were happy.
I’m not sure who browser is. While I respect their kind gesture, I wish they had have left a username.
However, they must be on an Aol proxy connection.
I felt the need to clear that. Please feel free to read up on Aol and proxy connections.
As you very well know, I’m on Kos.
We have also updated our warning section and thrive to make is more resourceful.
Thanks!
Rose DesRochers
Rose, thanks for letting me know that you changed the warning pages of your site. I checked them out and they look great. I’m sure you will find that your users will get more from that section of your site now then what was there before you changed them. I believe it was a wise decision to change them. Kudos to you and I hope you find peace and joy in all your future business and personal ventures.
I will add an update note to the original post for those who come here so that they know the pages have changed. I’m going to leave the post as is because I believe that others can learn from it. Ultimately, this has turned into a positive exchange and one can’t ask for anything more.
Glo, Thank you!
I am also an AOL user so I hope this causes no confusion.
My name is Tamara and I have been a member of Todays-Woman since 3-2005. I have found the writers on this website to be a very supportive bunch of people. Not just with our poems or stories, but with us as people. Todays-Woman, to me, has been a very important factor in my life the past ten months. Receiving feedback on my work as well as giving it to others is a win-win situation. Now while I do not agree with everything on the site, I have found a home away from home. I was actually suspended for a few days for a questionable poem I posted.
The Web is like any store, restaurant, city, or anything on earth. No two people are going to totally agree on the same thing for we all see differently. We have to decide what is best for us. Like my kids, warts and all, I will always love them for just being mine. I can see past the little things they do because they know what irritates me. So my advice is (at no charge) for everyone to make up their own minds after looking into things for themselves. While I may never be published or even famous, I have touched the hearts of others with my work. For me, that is my glory.
Glo, I want to commend you on your site again, especially concerning this particular article and comments that are given. I do want to add just a few comments that are directed at any site that opens a poetry forum. My opinion is that anyone that opens a site where there are several members that become involved in a site is considered a business, and the owners and moderators should treat it as such. And the old saying of “The customer always comes first” should play an important role. This stops a great deal of anger and hurt. For example, the post above where the member was suspended a few days. Was she automatically suspended as a punishment (such as being in jail a few days or grounded to teach them a lesson?), or did she have to write the site and explain her situation? While I am trying not to be disrespectful, there are many people that have been banned and suspended from Todays Women as Rose did not like what they said or disagreed with her, or they did not like something on the site and spoke up. And I don’t think that Todays Women is the only site that has done this, but it is a very unfortunate thing. Anger and hurt feelings were felt on both sides, causing confusion, which started many flame wars.
A business owner and or moderator should have handled this different with an email and the reasons why, or have hired someone to read things before they were posted to the site to see if they were “questionable or appropriate” which would have stopped several post on poetry forums and other places which can be googled and read about. This only hurts a site, and with the Internet so available, rumored or not, people become very wary of poetry sites where this type of behavior is delivered.
Many years ago, I had my own business, and a very productive one, and at times I wanted to kick my customers in the teeth, and the only thing that stopped me many times was a sign I always kept in front of my desk which read “It is nice to be important, but more important to be nice.”
yngathrrt, I do understand what you are saying and how some must have felt when suspended without knowing why or feeling that they had to monitor themselves in order to stay a part of a community they enjoyed. But I really don’t agree with you on a members driven site becoming a business. While I do agree that as a site owner, you should work toward making your members comfortable and feel welcome but that’s just good manners. Being in the personal service industry, I understand the principles of “the customer is always right” mentality, though in my profession that’s rarely the case. While they pay me for my services, they also pay for my expertise and I would be doing them a disservice if I did not provide them with those expertise.
Today’s Woman is not charging members and they are not offering a service to their members, per-say. They are offering a place to commune with like-minded people, in this case, writers. If you see it from a different perspective, it might free you from feeling like a victim to circumstances beyond your control. Rose has every right to dictate how things will be on her site. You, as a user or guest, have the right to not partake in a community that goes against what your moral fiber believes is right or wrong. Where it becomes complicated is when our emotions get involved. We become attached to the community, someone is compromising our sense of security and/or well-being within that community and we are unwilling to give up the part that has value, so we set out to try and fix what we see as the problem.
THE PROBLEM is really that most of us do not have the skills to confront a problem in such a way that a win-win solution can be explored or nurtured. We approach it with a right and wrong mentality and that rarely cultivates the kind of change we want. Instead, we add a different spin on the original conflict and other problems arise from it and the problems will continue to escalate as long as both parties stay grounded in their own muck, in their own emotional turmoil. Separation is emanate and so the wheel turns until it’s spinning completely out of control and both sides feel wronged and justified in the ensuing separation. It is the nature of the human beast but if we ever hope to evolve as a human race, the beast must be tamed.
I really don’t want this comment to look like a lecture. I’m only trying to show that both sides have their own story to tell about the same event. Each perception is correct within the limitations of personal experience and each perception is incorrect given those same limitations. You are sure that you do not want to be a part of a bitter community, or associate with a bitter community leader, and you have absolute authority to make that choice as does Rose in the choices she makes for herself and her site.
I have already expressed how I felt about some of the content on Today’s Woman and on Rose’s behavior, or how I perceived her behavior. The fact that Rose took that content off her site, for whatever reason, shows me that she isn’t one-dimensional and that she does care, even though her actions, or reactions to her environment, doesn’t always look like someone who cares. Rose is a warrior and once she understands that the battle she fights lives within herself and her exterior reality only mirrors that battle, she will no long have to wear the armor of a warrior, she can lay down her sword and be free to express her true self. And for whatever it’s worth, Rose is not alone for a warrior can not do battle without a worthy opponent, no ….?
Take care and thanks for posting something that caused me to think outside of my own limited perception.
I felt the need to comment on something. Glo, I think perhaps there might be some confusion here. I don’t wish for you to misunderstand what you read. I feel this is what has happened. I never removed the warnings regarding poetry scams and literary escape. I rewrote in an effort to only provide verifiable evidence. It is my story of abuse and how it all began and I’m not the first writer to share her story in a situation such as this. Now, I realize that you might not agree with my course of actions and I do respect that.
The warning section of our site has since been updated with new warnings, articles, and other writers warning resources. I do encourage you to read the latest warning added and how I was successful in revolving that. We are really trying to do our very best at providing an resource for writers that will inform them about publishing frauds, scams, deceptions , plagiarism and other things that writers should avoid. We really do not wish for visitors to perceive the warning section as a vendetta.
I would like to address yngathrrt’s post. A google search did inform who this individual is.
Yngathrrt is an ex-member of our community. Due to our privacy policy, I will not comment as to why she was removed. However, she does have a right to post her experience. Like you pointed out Glo, there are two sides to every story. One is right and the other is wrong. It is up to potential members to decide if our community is one that they wish to join.
Regarding the situation where MommaTiger was suspended, I don’t even recall the circumstances surrounding that. The main thing is that the issue was resolved and Mommatiger is still an active member of our community.
I think that both of us will admit that we’ve been known to debate from time to time on controversial topics. In the end though, we still respect each other as writers.
Administrating Today’s Woman has been an extraordinary experience for me. It has been very moving, sometimes upsetting but over all wonderful and a real learning experience for me personally and professionally.
To err is human, but to blame someone else for your mistakes is just wrong. I’m the first one to publicly admit that the first few years of administrating Today’s Woman was trial and error. There were situations that there’s no doubt in my mind, could have been better handled. Mistakes are part of the dues one pays for administrating a website, any website, or business.
I’ve learned that there are ways to effectively handle problems that arise. Today’s-Woman now has a staff of seven, including myself that ensures members feel at home and the community standards are maintained.
A guide to the responsibility of members and staff can be found in our FAQ section.
I’d just like to say in closing, I’ve come to the conclusion that you can’t please everyone.
I’ll do my best to provide writers with a valuable resource and hope that visitors to the community will see it as just that.
Thanks for your time Glo and I’m sorry if you misread or misunderstood anything.
Rose DesRochers
Rose, I did understand that you rewrote the warning pages. When I viewed that part of your site, all of the stuff that was non-writing related was gone. Are you saying that it’s still there somewhere? If so, then I need to remove the update that I added to the original post.
I feel a need to address something you think I said (wrote). Like you pointed out Glo, there are two sides to every story. One is right and the other is wrong. That’s not what I wrote. You really should reread what I did write. It has a much deeper meaning than what’s right or what’s wrong.
Glo, nothing has been changed since you last viewed it. I suggest that you view it once again. Like I already stated, I never removed the warnings regarding poetry scams and literary escape, which is writing related. It is where it has always been. I rewrote in an effort to only provide verifiable evidence, as to my experience with both websites.
I felt that you might have misunderstood and that you might have thought that I removed the warning and I just wanted to make it clear to you that it was there.
I have no intentions of removing it.
You said, and let me quote your text here.
“I’m only trying to show that both sides have their own story to tell about the same event. Each perception is correct within the limitations of personal experience and each perception is incorrect given those same limitations. You are sure that you do not want to be a part of a bitter community, or associate with a bitter community leader, and you have absolute authority to make that choice as does Rose in the choices she makes for herself and her site.”
Yes, both yngathrrt and I do have our own story and once again, I was commenting that one is right and one is wrong. That was my opinion and in no way, was I’m implying that is what you meant. The events surrounding yngathrrt , may have been a misunderstanding of communication. However that is neither here nor now. I’m not going to get into what took place, which I believe that hurts feelings were on both parts. This is all really irrelevant and this was supposed to be about the warning section of Today’s Woman, which has been updated and you did verify that it was.
I’m in no way bitter or do I harbor any hard feelings towards you or yngathrrt for stating your opinion. You did challenge me to take a closer look at the section and only state the facts where warnings are concerned. Which, I have done.
Like I stated, it is up to potential members to decide if our community is one that they wish to join or if they find the warnings section useful.
Thank you for your time and like I said, I’ll do my best to provide writers with a valuable resource and hope that visitors to the community will see it as just that.
Rose DesRochers
Glo said, “I’m only trying to show that both sides have their own story to tell about the same event. Each perception is correct within the limitations of personal experience and each perception is incorrect given those same limitations.”
That means that both sides, within the context of their own perceptions, can be both right and wrong. From my own point of view, the “warnings” posted on both Todays-woman.net and Invisiongraphics.com are riddled with innacuarcies and are purely written with the intent to hurt my and my husband’s reputation. That is our perspective, however, considering we have no way to rebuttle on either site, we will do, as I am doing now, something to thwart such (as we percieve) attacks. In fact, I am almost a little afraid to even post a rebuttal, even here, because I fear I will receive word that my base will have been notified that I am harassing the DesRoschers yet again (a common occurance when I try to rectify some of the postings that are easily visible to people on her sites, even if I do so somewhat cordially).
The fact is that niether my husband nor I have any desire to argue with the DesRochers, but we do feel the need to rebuttal against such claims as plagiarism, theft, harassment, stalking, and so forth.
The warnings on the DesRoschers websites are not about our own interactions, and the ones that are, seem to be taken completely out of context. We know fully well, that this argument between us started over a series of miscommunications and misunderstandings. Why now, would the DesRochers be the only ones to pick apart, by series of lengthy Google searches on us, every little thing that we do?
The point I’m trying to make is that Glo seemed to be saying that the way we deal with these situations is completely up to the individual, however, we must keep in mind that such debacles aren’t as simple as one person being wrong and one being right. In fact, I believe that, usually in such arguments, both need to just give it up and let go. My husband and I would love to do that, to apologize for some of the things we’ve said in anger, but no matter how much we do that, there will always be some lenghty list of warnings about how evil we are, or how we are trying to con someone. Even sincere apologies have been called “sympathy ploys,” and so forth.
My husband and I take those kinds of words very seriously, especially considering a Google search for either of our names yields these warnings on the very first page. I’ve had long lost family members trying to find me who, after doing so, asked, “What’s the deal with these weird warnings about you?”
My personal thought is that if Rose wanted this to end, and she didn’t want me to come to places such as here to post a response, than she wouldn’t have bombed Google with page after page of warnings (non-factual, at that, and non-relevant to our communications with her), and she wouldn’t have spent such an exhausting amount of time researching me and my husband to posts such warnings.
My husband and I have a completely different perspective regarding such warnings, and we cannot understand why she wouldn’t, at the very least, allow us to post a response to them. A simple fact by fact rebuttal is all we would like. She could continue to keep her “warnings,” and we would respond, not by attacking her, but by explaining why we believe what she has said about us to be false, or why we even said what we said, or what she said to us in the first place.
At the very least, people could see that there _are_ two sides to this story, and they _could_ make an objective opinion, rather than see these posts, wonder why we wouldn’t have a response, and then simply believe that we are dirt-lovin’ scoundrals that belong in prison.
This is very sad. I did a search on Google for Devrie and Jeff Paris and sure enough, the pages I thought had been removed from Today’s Woman are still there. I can not recommend a site to my readers that displays such disrespect and disregard for writers by subjecting them to a wordy account of a 2 year old war that started over a link exchange misunderstanding. The Paris’ are not scam artists trying to scam writers out of their money. There is absolutely no verifiable evidence that writers should be warned against using their services, none.
I was more than willing to give Rose DesRochers the benefit of a doubt and wrote this post to simply warn my readers against believing everything they read and to do their own research. Since I did list her warning pages in my resource directory, it has the appearance that I’m recommending it. While some of the information on the writers warning pages is writing related and verifiable, some is inappropriate in my opinion and I did not want my readers to think that I supported the information on all of those pages.
When Rose commented that she had changed those pages and I checked that part of her site out, they were not there, at least I did not find them, so I wrote an update and added it to the original post and gave Rose a kudos’ for making the changes. I can accept that I simply missed seeing those pages and that I misunderstood Rose’s intent. I have removed the update since it was incorrect and I also removed the link to Today’s Woman in my resource directory.
To Rose: While I respect your right to have whatever content you think is appropriate on your site, I will not support content that is questionable, especially when its sole purpose is to destroy your competitions credibility without any viable evidence. There will be no further comments made here on this subject, I’m closing comments to this post. My readers are intelligent and will make the right choice for themselves. There is more than enough information here and elsewhere to help them make an informed choice.
Thank you, everyone, for commenting. I appreciate that everyone remained as respectful as possible given the circumstances. There’s no point in allowing this to go any further. It can only degrade into a battle ground and that is not something I will foster. I do hope that all involved can move forward and just enjoy their lives.